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Spoken Word Artist Nubia:  Poetic Arousal For Sure

Nubia is a spoken word artist, writer and performer whose CD is quite hypnotic and stimulating to say the least.  Speaking of stimulating, the title cut “Poetic Arousal” is very arousing but in an intellectual stimulating kind of way if that makes sense.  You have to hear it to believe it. 

Check out Gary Johnson’s interview with Nubia. 

The Nubia Interview 

BMIA.com:  I want to talk about your spoken word CD, “Poetic Arousal.”  The CD is stimulating, spiritual and thought provoking.  How has the CD been received? 

Nubia:  The CD has been received well by many.  I’ve received positive responses from both male and female (all ages and races) as to how the music as well as the words motivate and up-lift them spiritually, which encourages me to keep pushing to a wider audience. 

BMIA.com:  How did you become a spoken word artist? 

Nubia:  My life has led me to writing and from writing to wanting to express verbally thus opening a door for me to perform and share my passion by speaking words from within unto listening ears and longing souls.  

BMIA.com:  What makes a “successful” spoken word artist?

Nubia:  Diligence, Faith, Commitment in your art, acknowledging and appreciating others that have helped along the way. Staying positive, not for the accolades but for the love of what you do and being True to SELF. 

BMIA.com:  How often do you tour? 

Nubia:  Every moment I get LOL!  I enjoy sharing my passions in life. 

BMIA.com:  You wrote the music, you speak the music, and you sing the songs.  I get the sense that you’ve had a wide variety of musical influences.  Who are some of your musical influences? 

Nubia:  This is a good one.  Sade, Erika Badu, Patti Labelle and Maya Angelou.  All of these women express UNIQUELY from their soul. 

BMIA.com:  What do you want people to “get” as a result of listening to your CD? 

Nubia:  Through my writings I aspire to evoke thoughts of candor, open the doors of consciousness for self-reflection, and to encourage /motivate all to be free spiritually. My CD contains many messages. 

BMIA.com:  How much of your personal life is reflected in your music? 

Nubia:  Most my music is a reflection of my life.  As a writer, I am inspired by all situations in life.  Whether it affects me directly or indirectly. Sometimes I reflect upon personal experiences through my writings or merely through observation of some one else’s experience. Sometimes I just write about life. 

BMIA.com:  Do you have any professional ambitions outside of music? 

Nubia:  I am what some would call a Nubia of all trades.  I am owner of "Nubia's Baskets-N-More" (my gift basket company), I am a health care professional/counselor for the VA Medical Center.  I work with substance abusers.  I’m also a licensed massage therapist.  My company’s name is "A Touch for Better Health." 

BMIA.com:  How would you describe your sound? 

Nubia:  Like none other.  It is unlimited and uninhibited.  Uniquely flavored with a sultry mix of thought provoking lyrics. 

BMIA.com:  What’s the best thing about being Nubia? 

Nubia:  I possess an open mind, linked with a heart that allows me to do what I can for others without a thought of how it affects   me.  Nubia allows me to voice my heart to many souls. 

BMIA.com:  How involved are you with the business side of your career?

Nubia:  I am the Alpha and Omega within my businesses.  I know where I want my talents to take me, so I keep things flowing from the cradle to grave. 

BMIA.com:  How much can you share about your personal life?  Are you married?  Single?  Have a significant other? 

Nubia:  I am married to my passions in life. 

BMIA.com:  Where do you see Nubia 5 years from now? 

Nubia:  Getting better with each passing day.  Still learning, growing and accomplishing different and new endeavors.  I do not put a time span on my goals and future accomplishments. My future is NOW!!! What can be done within 5 years can also be accomplished in within 1 month, 3 months, 1 year or 3 years.  It is merely up to the individual and how they carry out their Plan of Action.  

BMIA.com:  What are the most important issue facing black men in America?  Black women? 

Nubia:  Education, and not focusing on our children’s future, and supporting each other as one.  Color is just that, color, and it does not dictate who you are, what you can do, or where you can go in life.  Each person, controls that walk individually.  Life is what we make it. Always has been and always will be. 

BMIA.com:  How can we support you and your career? 

Nubia:  Networking, word of mouth as well as online advertising.  I am thankful to God for people such as you for the support and promotion.  Gary I would like to give a special thanks to you, not only for what you do, but also for who you are.  You’re a positive Black Man in America.  ”Keep on doing what you do.” 

Special thanks to the Omnipotent One (God), Phillip Gregory of Jazz Poetry Café’, Kimberly Banks of Promise Land Productions, Cassandra Faye Armstrong, Darryl (D’Poet) Thomas, Lajeanne’ Mizell, Allen James the Chef, family, friends and fans for all of the love and support.

You can learn more about Nubia by visiting her web site at www.nubia4u.com.  You can purchase her CD from CD Baby at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nubia.

Deanna James-McCray - Mrs. Maryland United States 2005

Deanna McCray-James was born and raised the in Washington, DC Metropolitan Area.  Showing an early interest in politics and government, she served as a State Page in the Maryland Senate as well as a Congressional Intern.  Mrs. McCray-James is a graduate of the University of Maryland University College with a B.S. in Management Studies.  She is currently pursuing a dual Masters of Science in Management/MBA with a focus in Marketing from the University of Maryland University College.  In 2003, she and her business partner formed the Metropolitan Young Ladies Council (MYLC), a program dedicated to mentoring young women ages 13-18. MYLC efforts focus on guiding financial, intellectual, cultural and social development–preparing young women for a brighter, diverse and independent future.  Deanna by way of her platform is making a difference in our community.  You can learn more about this multi-talented woman by reading our interview with her.

BMIA.com:  Hello Deanna.  Thanks for taking the time out for this interview.  However, you have a very impressive and eclectic background that I will get to in a minute.  I know that you grew up in the Washington, DC metro area and graduated from the University of Maryland University College.   You also served as a State Page in the Maryland Senate as well as a Congressional Intern for the Honorable Albert R. Wynn, (D-MD) during the 104th Congress’ 2nd session and the Democratic National Committee.  How in the world did you get into pageantry?

Deanna James-McCray:  Well as most young ladies, I grew up watching the Miss America pageant on TV every year and dreamed of being on stage like those women.  I really didn’t understand that it was a scholarship pageant, nor did I understand what it took to be a part of that world, in terms of financing, talent and time.  I just knew they were on stage, they were princesses and they won lots of prizes.  As I grew older and began to research it I became very disheartened about how to become involved.  In the late 80's and early 90's pageantry in Maryland was pretty much a predominately white and well to do arena.  I wasn’t aware how to get financial and in-kind sponsorships that would help me enter the local pageants and as a result I was never able to compete.  There were a few local titles that I tried to enter in PG county but somehow they always ended up being cancelled due to lack of participation.  I did however when Homecoming Duchess, my sophomore year at Forestville High School.   I decided to try again when I entered college and subsequently competed and won the title of Miss Black Student Alliance.  It was a very interesting pageant for the university’s black student group was a lot of fun to represent at Homecoming.  Unfortunately I never got to fulfill my dream of being in that pageant system because I never fully understood how to get financing and I became pregnant with my son.  As you know – you can’t enter Miss America once you have a child, especially if you are unwed.  Once I got married, I started surfing around on the web to find out if there were pageants that were available for married women and to my surprise there are.  To the best of my knowledge there are four major pageants for married women:  Mrs. America, Mrs. United States, Black Mrs. International and Mrs. International 2000.

BMIA.com:  Can you share what its like to be Mrs. Maryland in terms of the challenges, responsibilities and the opportunities? 

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Deanna James-McCray:  Being Mrs. Maryland United States is absolutely dynamic.  Pageants and the women that enter them often have very bad reps.  A lot of it is misunderstandings about the culture and the preparation that goes into competing.  As Mrs. Maryland, I have had the opportunity to volunteer for a number of causes and bring attention to a number of issues in the state.  For instance, currently I am on the planning committee for the Alzheimer’s Association’s –National Capital Area Chapter’s annual fundraising event.  This event will raise thousands of dollars for Alzheimer’s care and research.  Of course I could have volunteered on my own and raised money on my own – but there is something different about calling a company to solicit a sponsorship or a donation and to say the call is coming from Mrs. Maryland – for whatever reason it makes a difference.  Throughout the year, I have also been able to work with the Asthma & Allergy Foundation, Black Women’s Health Imperative and my organization, the Metropolitan Young Ladies Council.   I have also had the opportunity to do some very fun and exciting things – I went to Las Vegas in July to compete for the national title of Mrs. United States.  I didn’t win, but I met 50 dynamic women from across the country all different races, ages, ethnicities, educational backgrounds, etc. and we had a ball developing lasting friendships and sharing experiences about things we would have never otherwise encountered.  You couldn’t have told me three years ago that I would have a dynamic friendship with a 35-year-old white woman from Wyoming or Idaho, but now I do.  I was also able to meet Mrs. Starr Jones-Reynolds, which was really a highlight – LOL.  In terms of challenges, I haven’t had very many.  Perhaps that is due to my attitude and temperament.  I have always been very much of a go-getter and don’t let to much get in my way.  I don’t believe in the first no being a final answer and have a pretty good negotiating strategy. 

What’s good about the title and what makes it different from some of the "Miss" titles is that there really aren’t a lot of demands and requirements on your time.  It is truly what you make of it.  The systems understands that the women who hold these titles are wives and oftentimes mothers first and have a number of other responsibilities and priorities that will take precedence over making an appearance for a store.  The director looks to me to outline my goals and my time commitments and I fit them in where I can.  Talking with my husband and my family also helps to determine where I can give and to whom. 

BMIA.com:  I understand that some of these pageants are very competitive and grueling.  Is it tougher for a black woman to compete in pageants today?

Deanna James-McCray:  It is still very tough and competitive for black women in the pageant industry.  Despite the gains that have been made by Vanessa Williams, Suzzette Charles, Ericka Dunlap and Shauntay Hilton, there has NEVER been a Black Mrs. National Titleholder.  Additionally, the most famous black Mrs. state titleholder just happens to be Omarosa, so you can only imagine how that plays with folks sometime.  Ultimately, I can’t say why it is so difficult for us, without pointing to the traditional stereotypical reasons of they just don’t want us to have it.  I don’t like to say because it sounds like such a cop out.  I personally have never faced anything negative being said to me, or at least to my face, or have I had people outwardly act indifferent to me.  But you read things on some of the pageant message boards and you hear things in passing that people say in general conversations.  My Mrs. United States class (contestants that competed in 2005) had seven Black women.  Seven sounds good, but seven out of 52 doesn’t sound too exciting. No Black women made it to the top 10, but you can’t think it was a conspiracy it is just the way it happened.  In the Mrs. America pageant, there were no black women at all this year.  Unfortunately, there is really no clear way to remedy these types of instances because we don’t know the route of the problem. It is easy to say, “oh they are trying not to pick black women,” but then you realize – “”hey there aren’t many black women competing.  When I won Mrs. Maryland United States last year, there were only two black contestants and I think the total number of women was 10.  Now we know there are way more competent, beautiful black women in Maryland than that, but that is the way it was.  So the statistical probability of a black woman winning last year wasn’t very high – but it happened.  I was the only black woman in the top 5 and I won, so it is hard for me to say they are truly targeting against picking a black women.  I just knew going in it I had to be at the tip top of my A game and bring it because I won’t be able to slack – since I am black.  By the grace of God and a lot of preparation I won.  You can tell sometimes that the pageant systems, don’t “expect” to have a black or any minority winner for that matter.  There was a pageant for another system in Maryland a few years back that had a black winner, you could clearly tell the director and the organizers weren’t expecting that because the prize package included things like: tickets to the hockey game, a years worth of tickets for tanning, standing appointments at a very exclusive white salon, and other things that are predominately used by white women.  Do I think the director did this to be malicious or anything – no, but she just wasn’t expecting a black woman to win.  It is just a lot of people’s way of thinking. 

Another fact is that it is VERY expensive as a Mrs. to compete in pageants, because you aren’t very likely to get the same types of sponsorship opportunities that the teens or single women may get.  Entry fees alone can run between $400 - $1000 and then you still have to prepare your wardrobe and think about any “training” or assistance you may need – exercise, bio preparation, interviewing skills, stage presence, etc.  Not to say that black women can’t or won’t spend this kind of money, but it is something to think about and this is not how we traditionally spend our discretionary income and there aren’t usually a lot of monetary awards for Mrs. pageants.  One thing that is beginning to change with the increase of black state winners is society’s notion that we are not going to be rail thin and we aren’t matching the norm for model beauty.  As you can see in the picture of the Black contestants at Mrs. United States – we are some nice healthy sisters.

I am however, delighted to see the increase of black teens competing in pageants.  One of my goals through the year has been to motivate and assist young black women to become more involved in pageants, if for nothing else the scholarship dollars.  A winner of a local Miss Maryland America title (say, Miss College Park or Miss Suitland) can win anywhere from $1,000 to $5,000 depending on how the pageant is run. 

BMIA.com:  What was the best part of being Mrs. Maryland 2005? 

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Deanna James-McCray:  I would have to say the best part of being Mrs. Maryland was actually winning.  The pageant was exactly one week after my graduation from college so I was still riding high.  Also, I had the biggest personal audience I have ever had at a competition, including my parents.  Of course, my husband is always there but my parents had never seen me compete so I felt so blessed they were there to witness it.  My younger sister, my cousin and her husband and two of my very good friends all made the trip to Delaware to support me.  I know I will compete again, but if I never win another pageant – having all of them there to witness that win would really be enough for me. 

BMIA.com:  Do you still attend the University of Maryland University College? 

Deanna James-McCray:  Yes, I do still attend the University of Maryland University College.  As I stated previously, I graduated in May of last year with my Bachelors of Science degree in Management Studies.  I took the summer off and returned in September to pursue my first of two masters degrees. 

BMIA.com:  What is your major? 

Deanna James-McCray:  Currently, I am working on completing my Masters of Science in Management (MSM) with a focus in Public Relations.  UMUC has this dynamic option where you can earn a dual degree by taking a few more classes.  I will complete my MSM in the summer of 2007 and then I will begin working towards my MBA and hope to complete that in summer 2008. By pursuing both degrees consecutively without interruption, I am only required to take ½ the credits of a traditional MBA.  It is great, right now I am contemplating going for my Doctorate in Management after that – but we will have to see how I feel about that in a few years. 

BMIA.com:  Clearly, education was important in your life.  How did education become so important in your life? 

Deanna James-McCray:  You know, it’s very funny – I actually started out wanting to be “smarter than my mom.”  My sister and I grew up in a very loving family but no different than a lot of people. We were lower middle class and had average experiences.  I don’t remember how my mom actually told me, but somewhere along the way she mentioned graduating number 7 in her class at Anacostia High School.  I thought okay, well she was number 7.  I have to do the same or better.  I attended Prince George’s County Public Schools for my entire education and had the best time and think I received an education that is on par or better with that of a private school, so I have no regrets.  In Kindergarten they tested me for Talented and Gifted (TAG).  I don’t even think they told my parents they were doing it.  I vaguely remember being pulled out of class and told that I was taking a test and that was that.  So I was labeled as a TAG student very early and was always placed in talented classes.  I really don’t remember thinking anything special about it because all my friends were doing it also.  My mother was very important in making sure that my sister and I understood there was a whole world out there for us to explore and made sure we did a variety of things.  She introduced us to different types of music, literature and art.  It was never explained to us as a “white thing” or something that we should think of as special it was the norm.  I guess it helps that I went to a pretty integrated elementary school and a lot of my friends were military brats who lived on Andrews Air Force Base, so I was constantly being exposed to kids that had lived overseas who had parents that spoke different languages.  I began playing the flute in the 5^th grade and loved it and learned from there that I could earn scholarships and that I had an opportunity to do things that all the kids in the school couldn’t do – get out of class early, perform for the student body.  Things like that.  The year I started middle school at Andrew Jackson, was the same year they were instituting the magnet program in Prince Georges County Schools.  I had the opportunity to be in the inaugural class for the Humanities and Social Sciences program in the county.  My mom had spoken often of learning Spanish in school, of course wanting to be just like my mom, I wanted to learn Spanish also.  Well I got my wish and more, one of the components of the program was that each student in the cohort had to take one quarter of a different language and one full year of Latin.  So in the 7^th grade, I studied French, Spanish, Japanese, German and Latin.  In the 8^th grade, you picked a primary language, which was Spanish or French, and then you had a semester each of Japanese and Latin.  It was very different although to this day, I can’t stand the sound of German – too much hacking and coughing with your words.  It did however give me the opportunity to learn about careers that required these skills and how those careers could allow you to see the world at little cost to you.  To excel in these careers you needed a supreme education.  When I got to high school, I still had the same dream of being better than my mom and surrounded myself with like-minded people.  I took plenty of advanced placement classes and faired very well throughout my high school career.  I did achieve my goal of being just as smart as my mom (at least in my mind.)  I graduated in the top 10% of my class and received several scholarships and acceptances to a number of universities on the east coast. 

Education remains so important to me because I can see the difference it really makes in one’s life.  I had been in my same career field for about six years before receiving my degree however once I attained that goal, higher level positions and higher salaries were no longer considered out of the question for me.  Personnel directors looked at my resume with a little more respect after that.  Now I realize that if I want to continue to go further, I need to continue my education.  I am also involved with my alumni association and will serve on the Board of Directors beginning in September of 2006. 

BMIA.com:  Lost in the “pageantry” of being Mrs. Maryland, you are quite the entrepreneur.  What type of businesses are you involved in? 

Deanna James-McCray:  Well I operate a consulting and event-planning firm in the area.  For a number of years, I have worked in the association management industry doing membership, chapter relations, marketing and event planning.  With my company, I outsource my skills to associations to help them better develop their membership departments, analysis member records and help them determine how to use their data to better understand their membership demographics and what services or benefits they may want to offer or discontinue.  I also do event planning for a number of smaller groups and causes.  I do a series of networking and informational workshops for African-American women and really try to stress the importance of networking for them.  Often times the difference between getting that job is who you know and what they know about your character and work.  My latest project is actually a pro-bono effort that I connected with through Mrs. Maryland.  I will be working with the Educators Serving the Community (EDUSERC) Organization to plan their 2007 Awards program and conference.  I made an appearance for them and was subsequently asked to serve as the Spokesperson for the organization.  As I learned more about them, I knew I had to work in a greater capacity for their mission outside of just making appearances.  I am so excited and can’t wait to start publicizing the event.

I would eventually like to open up a teen center so that my kids will have somewhere to go when they get to that age. 

BMIA.com:  Let’s talk about work and family.  In 2002 you married the love of your life Darrin.  You also have two children (Amira and Demitri).  Is it hard for you to find a comfortable balance between work and family?  What’s the biggest challenge in this area? 

Husband Darrin and Deanna

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Deanna James-McCray:  Well I am a pretty high strung and active person so it isn’t hard for me to find the balance, but it is quite the balancing act.  I would be totally lost without my organizer. There are certain days that I dedicated to being outside of my home to work on “extracurricular things” so I am able to maintain, somewhat of a steady schedule.  I have the old fashioned big book – can’t do the electronic thing.  My family is a blended family; my husband and I both brought a child to the relationship.  The children get along wonderfully and we are both very fortunate to have good, open relationships with their other parents.  This makes life a lot easier for us and makes planning things simpler.  My husband is a HUGE support system for me I guess we compliment each other well.  I am very outgoing and very into community service and doing things and having lots of appointments and meetings to do this and do that. Where as he is laid back, very relaxed and can just chill and watch sports and be happy.  He is a southern guy, he is from New Orleans so he loves to cook and entertain friends at home.  As I get older, I am starting to slow down more and appreciate being home more but I don’t think I will ever completely empty my calendar.  My parents and sister are a huge support system as well.  My dad is very instrumental in after school care for my son and because of this he has developed a strong and loving bond with his grandparents.  Ironically, the biggest challenge might be keeping up with the kids’ schedule as it begins to take on a life of its own.  Pretty soon I will have no choice but to rearrange my life around them.  Between the two of them, there is track, basketball, soccer, softball, Girl Scouts and football. That’s not even including homework and academic pursuits.  I am very happy to say that my son and daughter usually maintain between a 3.75 and 4.00 GPA and take a lot of pride in doing well in school and being their best. 

BMIA.com:  What are you doing now? 

Deanna James-McCray:  Well currently, I am preparing to crown my successor for Mrs. Maryland United States – it will truly be a bittersweet moment but all good things must come to an end.  My family just moved into a new home so I am constantly finding something to redecorate.  Of course, I am spending a lot of time right now preparing my final research papers and other items for class as well as getting my children settled for summer camps and activities for the summer.  My next pageant isn’t until April 2007, so I have a little time to rest on the pageant front.

As I said earlier, my two key projects right now are the Alzheimer’s Association and EDUSERC.  The Alzheimer’s Association is so important to me because I lost one of my great aunts to this horrible disease. This was a woman who was so vivacious and was the life of the party in our family. Very stylish and would often teach the younger ones how to crochet.  When she was struck with this disease, she became a very violent and volatile woman who was often angry and mad at the world.  We eventually had to put her in a home in an effort to stop her from being a danger to her self and others.  Right now, I have a very dear Uncle, well family friend – you know how we are, that is suffering from this disease.  It isn’t really bad yet, it is in the early stages. However because of the disease he had to resign his post as a minister at a local church.  The event that I am working on with the DC Chapter is called the Maintain Your Brain Challenge and it will be held at American University in Washington, DC on Saturday, June 10^th.  The event is being held to bring awareness to the importance focusing on your brain can play in the prevention of Alzheimer’s. It is a family event and will have a few areas of interest for just about everyone.  A few of my friends from Mrs. United States will be there to help out, including Mrs. United States – Dr. Chiann Fan Gibson.  Anyone that wants to donate or learn more about the event can do so by going to my team’s webpage - https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=165460&supId=123199426. 

BMIA.com:  Who are some of the people that motivate and inspire you? 

Deanna James-McCray:  My number one inspiration has been my grandmother.  She passed away in 2001 but we were so very, very close.  She was born in 1911 and as most young black women in that era she didn’t have a lot of education and had to sacrifice a lot for the good of the family but she persevered.  She was just a shining example of self-determination, faith and belief in Christ, doing the right thing and just living life in such a happy way.  She always had a kind word for people and didn’t believe in harping on the negative.  I initially left my first college because I wanted to be grown.  I wanted to get a job and work and all the things I thought were fun in life.  After that, I became pregnant and couldn’t return to school for some time.  Through it all, she never told me she was disappointed and just hoped that I would return to school and achieve all the things she wanted for me and knew I wanted for myself.  I finally returned to UMUC after she passed and didn’t go to visit her gravesite until I picked up my cap and gown for commencement activities from school.  Something in my psyche didn’t want to go until I could tell her that I would be a college graduate. 

My motivation now is my family, my children.  I am not motivated to make a lot of money or be the most popular however I am motivated to live a good example for my kids and try to demonstrate to them what success and happiness can be.  Everyone has to define success for themselves, but I want them to be able to say great things about me and my influence and impact on them the way I do about my parents.  Even today, in my 30s I think my parents are the best people in the world.  In high school, all my friends would call my parents the Huxtables.  At the time, I hated it but now I see what an honor and a blessing that was.  They were together, they were PRESENT, something a lot of kids are missing now, and they were supportive.  That’s what I want to be for my kids and in order to do that I must strive to make myself happy, I have to continue to try to achieve things that make me feel fulfilled and happy and useful.  I am motivated by my husband and my family in a sense I want to continue to make them proud of the things I am accomplishing and the way I serve my community. 

BMIA.com:  What advice would you give to women who want to compete in pageants? 

Deanna James-McCray:  I would definitely advise them to not be deterred by cost factors. Where there is a will there is a way and anything you want is worth working hard for.  Don’t be afraid to ask for help and look for out of the box and unconventional ways to get what you need.  Never be afraid to self-promote, just be honest and humble about it.  No one is ever going to love you as much as you love yourself and there is nothing wrong with that.  Most importantly don’t be afraid to try and fail – if you don’t win the first time, don’t give up.  Take your experience and learn from it, study it, eat and sleep it and figure out how to make it better.  Competing in pageants is no different that competing for other things in life.  If you put in half work, you will get half results.  If you go in scared, that fear will show and overtake you. 

On my first attempt at Mrs. Maryland United States- I BOMBED, so badly.  I was afraid to ask about things I didn’t understand and I didn’t think outside the box.  My next competition, Mrs. Maryland America I asked for help.  I had friends quiz me, I asked my husband his opinion on outfits and I read a lot on what people were saying about the industry.  I was lucky enough to place 2^nd runner up and won the Mrs. Congeniality award.  My second attempt at Mrs. Maryland United States, I prepared I read everything, I sought the help of a coach, I asked friends for their help and I even went to local business to see what types of sponsorship opportunities were available.  If I had quit after my first disaster, I would have never won this dynamic title.

Deanna and S